Morris Dental Care

Negative experience: Not too long ago, I registered with MDC for an extraction. I trusted them and agreed to proceed with additional treatments including a clean & polish and fillings. I spent over £300–£400, only for my filling to fall out shortly after. During the appointment, the dentist appeared more focused on chatting with a colleague than on my treatment. As a result, the filling was misaligned with my bottom teeth and eventually chipped off. I am now in agonising pain and will be seeking treatment from another dental practitioner.

Fantastic experience: I can’t recommend this dental practice enough! My sister, who is usually a very nervous patient, had such a positive experience here. From the moment we walked in, the staff were incredibly friendly and welcoming, which immediately helped put her at ease. A huge thank you, especially to Daniel and Zara — they were absolutely amazing. They took the time to explain everything clearly and patiently, and their calm, reassuring manner made all the difference. It’s not easy finding a practice where nervous patients feel truly cared for, but this team went above and beyond.

Fantastic experience: I can’t recommend Morris Dental enough. I recently saw Daniel and Zara, and they are the best dentists I’ve ever had. I usually have really bad anxiety about dental visits, but they were incredibly kind and patient. From the moment I walked in, they talked me through every step of my initial appointment and made sure I felt comfortable the entire time.

Fantastic experience: I’ve used this dentist for more than a decade on and off. I’m not a registered patient, but I go when I need dental treatment. it’s actually the only dentist I trust. because I’ve had bad experiences with 1-2 other dentist in the past 25 years. but I wish I could get NHS dentist, money tight.and need a lot of dental work, but I can only afford very limited selective dental treatment when I’m able to afford it. but getting a NHS dentist is pretty hard. I last used this dentist last October 2024, I made appointment explaining what I wanted, receptionist listened and understood, from appointment to dental treatment, was quick. I needed a veneer reattaching, and they was able to reattach it.. I’m aware it’s changed ownership, but I found the staff just as friendly and very engaging…

Fantastic experience: I have just finished my Invisalign treatment and I am honestly so chuffed and happy with the results! It’s been a long journey, but the end results were so worth it. In the past week I have received so many compliments from my family and peers for my new smile, which honestly gave me a huge confidence boost as this is something I have been conscious about for so many years. I am feeling over the moon!! A HUGE thank you to Ben and Samiha who have been amazing during each appointment I had for the past year, I have always felt welcomed and listened to! Ben is so dedicated to his work and has been very responsive and patient with any questions I asked. He always communicated everything clearly every step of the way. I also want to thank the lovely reception staff Zara and Catherine who always made me feel welcomed to the practice by greeting me with their big smiles and generous and friendly approach!! I am very grateful for the support I’ve received from the Morris Dental Care team and Ben who has done a wonderful job.

Fantastic experience: Very happy with my results after straightening and some bonding, it’s made such a difference to my smile and confidence . I would highly recommend, thank you Ben.

Fantastic experience: Had a fantastic experience today at morris dental care. I was extremely nervous as I haven’t attended a dentist for years. The lady’s on reception were extremely pleasant and reassuring. The dentist himself, Daniel, was very patient and understanding of my nerves. He explained what he was going to do prior to carrying out the procedure and told me to raise my hand at any point I wanted him to stop. He took his time and gave reassurance throughout. I found him to be friendly, approachable and professional and I am sure this has helped enormously with my anxiety of the dentist. I can’t thank you enough and I would certainly recommend this dentist and dental practice.

Fantastic experience: This place always doing great job. Because already I left review with my personal email it won’t let me leave another one. so I had to use business email address. Today I had my teeth cleaning done by a Shair , she is done a great job. I moved out from Oldham to Bury since last year but still don’t want to relocate.

Fantastic experience: Cannot thank Ben enough. My experience with Morris Dental has changed my perspective on healthcare. I got clear instructions on what was needed, what was to be expected and I was not disappointed. It was cost effective, flexible and service was outstanding. I hope the best to everyone at Morris Dental.

Fantastic experience: I was referred to Morris Dental from my own dentist due to pain from a wisdom tooth that possibly needed extraction using IV sedation. I had to wait less than 1 week for the initial contact from them and was seen at the next available appointment convenient to us both. I was definitely in safe hands and as soon as I walked in I felt confident in the staff, their expertise and their friendly manner. It is now 2 days since I had my tooth out using IV sedation and I can’t thank everyone enough for their kindness and how much I was put at ease during the whole appointment. Georgia and her team were wonderful from start to finish and I would highly recommend this dental practice to anybody. A follow up call the day after my appointment was a nice touch also from the team to see how I was feeling. Thank you all for looking after me you made my experience so much better xxx

Fantastic experience: I've had a couple of appointments here now, including having a couple of fillings fixed yesterday by Sarah. During the procedure she explained each step, so I knew exactly what was going on at it was happening. I've found that the staff are really nice, even the Practice Manager! It almost makes me look forward to the tooth extraction I've got coming up in a couple of weeks... We'll maybe not, but at least I know I'll be in safe, competent, friendly hands.

Fantastic experience: amazing care always to the highest standard beautiful surgery

Fantastic experience: I hadn't visited the dentist for a number of years due to a previous bad experience. I had an initial consultation with Jacob where a treatment plan was developed. I have returned this morning for 2 extractions one of which was surgical. I can honestly say I felt absolutely nothing. If you are nervous you need this dentist in your life. The reception staff are wonderful too.

Fantastic experience: Just been to have a tooth removed by Jacob he was amazing with me he did an amazing job explained everything he was doing kept me calm would definitely recommend him … staff was brilliant offered me a brew while I waited amazing thank you morris dental care xx

Negative experience: Ability to listen to a patient is zero; Ability to meet the needs of a patient is zero; Costs are much higher than average; In short I would not recommend Morris Dental Care even to my worst enemy!

Fantastic experience: I have just finished my Invisalign treatment and I am so pleased with the results. A massive thank you to Ben and his assistant Samiha for everything! Ben was so patient with me and explained the whole process at every step of the treatment. Thank you to all the receptionists and nurses for being so friendly and helpful during all my visits over the last 16 months!

Fantastic experience: Highly recommended family dental practice. Friendly staff very attentive to nervous children

Fantastic experience: Amazing reception staff, very helpful and the dentist Georgia Barron is brilliant, she explains everything clearly and she is conscientious, respectful and delivers her care with professional integrity.

Fantastic experience: Best dentist I’ve been to by far. Amazing and friendly service from their receptionist to their dentist. I had an infected molar tooth for over 2 years and tried to get root canal done through nhs. Both times it was unsuccessful. I joined this dentist from a recommendation from a friend and it was the best decision I’ve made. My dentist (Alex) very professional and welcoming. He found the issues with my tooth right away and within a few weeks completed a successful root canal. The whole process and procedure was painless and I couldn’t be more happy. Just been over 9month since my root canal and my tooth is going strong . Thank you everyone at Morris Dental Care.

Fantastic experience: What a lovely practice. Elizabeth and the team are all really welcoming and reassuring.

Fantastic experience: Morris Dental Care in Oldham is a revelation! My experience with NHS dentists often involved referrals and frustrating delays for more involved treatments. Here, the difference is night and day. From the moment you step in, you're treated as a valued client, not just a patient. The friendly, professional team takes the time to truly listen, and incredibly, they often begin treatment during the initial consultation! I had a minor issue addressed and resolved immediately, saving me the stress and wait of further appointments. This efficiency, combined with their caring approach, has completely changed my perception of dental visits. While it's a private practice, the cost is surprisingly reasonable and the value for the exceptional service is undeniable. Highly recommended for anyone seeking proactive and patient-focused dental care in Oldham! Why not give them a go. I’m glad I did.

Fantastic experience: Nothing but good things to say about the service from the receptionists, to the dental nurses & practitioners. Everyone's so welcoming, accommodating, friendly, kind, caring & considerate. Two members of my family journey with Epilepsy & they always turn the music down or off and lower their voices, as well as making sure to keep checking up on them to see if they're OK, or need to stop for a moment before continuing. Everything's tailored. Some people dread going to the Dentist but all of the staff here make it a pleasant experience. Shah Chowdury (I'm not sure if I've spelt your name right sorry) is amazing!!! It's always a great experience with him, you always feel informed & he always asks if you have any questions, plus his dentistry skills are amazing. He's so friendly & always smiling. Everyone's always smiling. Would definitely recommend. Thanks everyone.

Fantastic experience: If anybody is looking for dentures/partial dentures, Morris Dental Care is the place to go! Dean the technician is the man to see, what a lovely guy he is, he's very professional yet so friendly, he instantly puts you at ease and he listens to what you want. I am absolutely thrilled with mine, they look amazing and so natural. Thanks Dean, you've done a wonderful job! Thanks Georgia for another quick and painless extraction and the lovely Kim for her assistance. Great dentist

Fantastic experience: Very friendly and helpful place to visit Thank you

Fantastic experience: A very good experience - professional and friendly staff, including reception

Fantastic experience: Excellent dental practice. Jacob explained everything very clearly and gave good advice and options. Samiha and Catherine were also super helpful and friendly.

Fantastic experience: It was my first time attending morris dental care and I was not disappointed the two reception ladies Sandra and Kim were so nice and very polite I was very anxious when I arrived but both of them made me feel comfortable and assured my appointment was for a tooth removal the dental surgeon who took care of it her name was Georgia i did not feel no pain whatsoever it's the best experience I have had when taking a tooth out I will definitely recommend this place to my friends and family overall my experience was very delightful thank you so much morris dental care 5

Fantastic experience: The care I received today from the receptionist to the dentist and dental nurse was superb.

Fantastic experience: Just perfect. Had to take out my wisdom tooth , it took only 5 min, no pain at all . Highly recommended Thank you

Fantastic experience: Terrified of the dentist for 20 odd years. Been every other week for the past 2 months with Georgia and its been nothing short of amazing! Very comfortable and approachable. And very aware of people's needs and anxiety!

Negative experience: Bad customer service. Some dentish book my appointment without my concern and told me. We can not book new appointment because I did not turn up on my appointment and I didn’t know anything about. Such a pathetic explanation to book a new appointment but without telling the patient. I would not even give one star because that is to much for this practice.

Fantastic experience: I had bone graft surgery to regenerate new bone for my molar. Dr Lizzie Morris numbed the area really well. l just needed a top-up part way through. Laura was very supportive throughout the procedure, put me at my ease. If anyone needs this procedure, go ahead it didn't hurt at all and was totally manageable for me as the patient. It does require 2.5 hrs in the chair. I am really pleased with the whole experience today. Thank you Lizzie and Laura.

Fantastic experience: The team are amazing so friendly and helpful! My four year old loves coming to the dentist and Jacob our dentist has been brilliant in giving us regular checkups and treatment for myself to get my teeth back healthy. I would highly recommend!

Fantastic experience: Had an emergency appointment with Jacob lower left back tooth and omg three injections and tooth extraction I didn’t feel a thing even with the injections. Im that happy with my treatment im registering as his private patient.

Fantastic experience: The whole experience was an absolute delight from being served by Ayesha at the reception to being treated by Holly and Samiha who were angels in disguise today. Truly appreciate their great work and professionalism.

Fantastic experience: I had a fantastic experience yesterday with Georgie, Laura and Kim using the gas and air, as a very nervous patient they were nothing but kind and reassuring explaining everything about the procedure and what they were going to be doing. Can not recommend them enough they are amazing!

Fantastic experience: How long is Morris Dental Care going to be my dentist? Indefinitely. Ten stars.

Fantastic experience: I was so pleased with my dental experience with Alex and Jacob. They were both professional and personable! The staff were helpful and caring as well. I’d recommend them to you!

Fantastic experience: Jacob is a fantastic dentist! Everything is thoroughly explained and treatments have been quick with no problems at all. The treatment room is very clean which puts my mind at rest. Prices aren’t too bad for private treatment.

Fantastic experience: I have been using this dentist for 20 years plus and the professionalism and quality of care continues to exceed my expectations. The best around 5 stars all day.

Fantastic experience: Sarah and Georgia have been very supportive and welcoming. The ladies at the reception are welcoming. Great experience!

Fantastic experience: Excellent dental practice. I've been here over 30years and now bring my children. They have seen Jacob regularly, he is great! The kids are always happy to see the staff and leaving smiling (with stickers!)

Fantastic experience: Great dentist: Reasonably priced, high level of expertise (also pragmatic; they are honest and provide a good balance of advice concerning what needs to be done and what isn't essential), friendly welcoming reception staff, lovely dental staff (particularly Georgia). Would recommend.

Fantastic experience: I have been a patient at Morris dentist for several years now and can honestly say that I always receive the highest quality dental treatment. The dentist here are incredible in their level of expertise and services they provide and also in the care/comfort they offer in more complex procedures. I highly recommend Morris Dental Practice not only because of the experience of the dentist but also the general regard for patients in terms of booking appointments. The entire team here are extremely friendly and work at a great level of professionalism. From the lovely girls Ayesha and Paige at the reception desk to all the hardworking dentists, this practice is one I’ll cherish. Thank you so much to all the members of staff for providing Oldham and wider areas with a great dental practice. Five stars and two thumbs up all the way!!⭐️

Fantastic experience: Been a patient at Morris Dental for a few months now, all the staff from the receptionist, dental nurses right through to the Dentists are lovely. Had a fantastic experience with Jacob, ever so helpful and always as are the receptionists. Thank you guys.

Fantastic experience: Great experience as always, today at Morris Dental Care. They go above and beyond. Jacob not only fixed my teeth but he carried out the treatment there and then rather than having to wait for an appointment. The work was perfect! Also got some good advice from Ayishah on reception, she gave me a number for emergency treatment for my Mum who's suffering with acute pain and needs an extraction. Would wholly recommend Morris Dental care ❤️

Fantastic experience: So glad I found this practice. My dentist Lizzy, assisted by Laura, were expert, gentle, relaxed and efficient. I have to also mention Ayesha at reception who patiently answered all my questions and of course Alex who made a root canal treatment not like a visit to the dentist. Strongly recommend this fabulous team to anyone who needs dental care.

Fantastic experience: A warm and friendly practice. I have had a few appointments and each time I’ve been made to feel relaxed and at ease throughout my treatment. Treatment is explained and I’m always happy after my visit. Thank You

Fantastic experience: I've been with this Dental Practice for probably 20+ years now and they have always been great with both myself and my two children. Every dentist we have seen here has been friendly, cooperative and done an amazing job, as have all the receptionists and assistants. Most recently my 12 year old daughter required an adult tooth extraction and as you can imagine, it was a very anxious time for both her and myself as a parent. We are very blessed to currently have Daniel as our dentist, and he has been absolutely fantastic! Not only is he very friendly, professional and knowledgeable, he's also very respectful of patient's personal beliefs which is so very important in a health care setting. Daniel completed what was considered to be a potentially complicated extraction brilliantly! He removed the complete tooth and roots and my daughter sailed through the procedure thanks to his professionalism , overseen by Georgia. Huge thanks to both Daniel, Georgia and Morris Dental Care. Couldn't recommend you enough. Definitely the best around!

Fantastic experience: The team was very friendly and helpful The treated my tooth I would recommend this dentist team as they are a good team thank you

Fantastic experience: Aisha the receptionist was lovely and jolly very helpful, holly and samia were amazing made me feel really comfortable and got the job done within minutes xx

Fantastic experience: Very lovely and fiendly staff. Holy made a proffesional anesthetic and Daniel is really a good denist. Deffently we back again xxx Gosia & Arek

Fantastic experience: Fantastic service from both Liz and Maggie as usual , always make the experience pleasurable with a good bit of fun and humour . Can highly recommend .

Fantastic experience: Staff are always friendly and courteous. Reception always happy to help

Fantastic experience: I have attended morris dental care and the staff have been great. The staff are very friendly , Ayishah has always been welcoming .

Fantastic experience: Nice staff and good treatment. Got well looked after by Lizzy and Sarah.

Fantastic experience: I have been coming to this Dentist for years! I recently had Invisalign treatment and couldn’t thank Ben enough. He was great throughout the process and very clear on each step which made it easier. I couldn’t be happier with my results, so thank you again!

Fantastic experience: Massive thank you to Maggie the hygienist. This was my first visit after having major surgery only 3 months ago. She was so patient and gentle and made me feel at ease. Thank you so much Maggie x

Fantastic experience: I was greeted by Catherine at reception who put me at ease, I'd not been the dentist for many years and I was apprehensive about going. I was treated by Georgia and Lyndzie who immediately made me feel welcome. Once they had finished, we had a detailed discussion about my teeth and it was made clear what happens next. Any questions I had have all been answered. I'll be making a return visit!

Fantastic experience: Best dental practice in town.The staff is always friendly and professional. Their expertise and gentle approach made my visit comfortable and stress-free. Highly recommend for anyone seeking top-quality dental care!

Fantastic experience: I attended multiple appointments at Morris to make a denture. They were very thorough and talked me through absolutely everything. I have finally got a set of Dentures that actually fit amazingly and look perfect!! I recommend Morris Dental Care to anyone and everyone! Big thanks to Elizabeth Morris and her Nurse Laura. Thank you to Zara who's always greeting with a smile on her face!

Fantastic experience: What a good dentist, the staff are so friendly , Nothing is too much trouble, so glad I got on here, it’s soooo much better than previous dentists I have seen in the past a well deserved 5 stars , just hoping my daughter and husband can get on soon

Fantastic experience: Most amazing team at Morris Dental care. Very welcoming and lovely. Was given the opportunity to spend 3 days on placement here and it was so useful in building my confidence and putting my skills into practice outside of dental school. Thank you to Sarah, Samia, Elizabeth and the rest of the team for allowing us to spend time at your clinic.

Fantastic experience: No longer worried to visit the dentist!! Ben is my dentist, I can thoroughly recommend him . Gone are the days of fearing my next visit Maggie & Aimee take care of my hygiene - it’s not a job for the faint hearted & they are Billie Eilish fans too Meanwhile - the cheeky guys on the front desk are Catherine & Zara - always smiling whilst passing you the card payment machine. As you can tell - Morris Dental care gets my recommendation Dave Fletcher. Royton.

Fantastic experience: An amazing and welcoming dental practice. Like most people, I do get anxious when going to the dentist but all the staff are so friendly, Jacob always makes me feel at ease and offers great advice that I always take on board.

Fantastic experience: I was recommended by innovate dental lab to come to morris dental care, I am so glad I went, the whole team have looked after me well. Georgia , Catherine and Ayishah have been excellent. Many thanks and love.

Fantastic experience: I have been coming for 24 years . It is the best dentist. Daniel and Kim have been been amazing! The whole team and receptionist is brilliant.

Fantastic experience: Very friendly and ceey efficient, Georgia is very professional, quick and painless!

Fantastic experience: I've used this dentist for over 20 years and i have to say i would'nt go anywhere else due to the expertise and dedication all the staff have. Also i'd like to thank my new hygienist for her welcoming and thorough assesment of my teeth it was a pleasure dealing with you today.

Fantastic experience: The best dentist in town. I’ve been coming since I was a child. Have tried other dentist but I wouldn’t go anywhere else anymore. The best hygienist and dentist who accommodate when I’m feeling anxious and my dental needs. The reception staff are the best, always friendly and helpful.

Fantastic experience: Went recently for my dentist appointment, friendly staff I get quite nervous going for my check ups but the staff help me feel at ease. My anxiety has reduced considrably thanks to everyone esprcially Holly who has seen me for the past few times :) Best dentist, everyone is so Lovely and welcoming too.

Fantastic experience: I have had an extremely excellent experience with Holly and Samoan. I have not been to a dentist for a few years due to a bad experience and today I was glad I did not cancel and feel like a positive journey has started for me. Thankyou so much to the team at Morris dental.. Nazia Kausar

Fantastic experience: Always get great service from the dental surgery. Liz and Maggie are fantastic, always show care and pay attention to your needs and have best interest at heart. Recommend them both

Fantastic experience: Lovely and friendly staff, quick to be seen and making appointments is quick and easy. My dentist Holly is amazing and did a great job. Thank you to everyone who made the experience wonderful!!!

Fantastic experience: Been with Morris dental care since I was a baby, all the team here are fantastic and always reassuring to me when I'm nervous. As I'm the biggest baby when receiving treatment. They're the best and will not go anywhere else !! Thank you team

Fantastic experience: I have been a patient at this practice for many years, under the care of Lizzie & her wonderful team, receptionists, hygienist, dental nurses who all want the best outcome for you. I can’t recommend them enough, friendly, caring, professional. Lizzie has always gone beyond reasonable expectations to deliver a first class service for her patients. I can’t thank them enough.

Fantastic experience: Fabulous staff, really put you at ease, genuinely care!!! When I first started coming here I had been without a dentist for a good few years, Lizzie did great work and didn't cost the earth - I will definitely keep coming here

Fantastic experience: Brilliant staff, very nice and friendly. I use to be terrified of going to the dentist, but the staff are so friendly and patience, that makes me feel at ease. Holly Carlo and Sarah the hygienist are such Brilliant lovely dentists.

Fantastic experience: Friendly receptionist and Georgia and dental nurses are very friendly and make you feel welcome and comfortable.

Fantastic experience: Brilliant Dental surgery and staff. Friendly atmosphere and Georgia one of the dentists there is amazing, if you have anxiety like me she puts your mind at ease, talks you through the treatment and always offers reassurance throughout. I woudnt go anywhere else!

Fantastic experience: Absolutely love this practise, from my dentist holly and the dental nurses to Aisha on reception , never felt so at ease at a dental practise than I do here. All my treatments have been carried out with the utmost professionalism but also with care and understanding. Thank you for everything you have done for me x

Fantastic experience: I am a very anxious patient but I the dentist reassured me and was very calm with me and talked me through the entire process making me feel comfortable with my procedure. I was greeted friendly by the receptionist too.

Fantastic experience: Lovely and polite receptionist, really welcoming, was in yesterday with Lizzy and Laura they are always great, was in today with Sarah and Amy for a clean up they were soo good and gentle I almost fell asleep haha God bless you all and will definitely recommend morris dental care

Fantastic experience: After being petrified of the dentist for over ten years I went to morris dental care who I was introduced to the dentist Holly I am now 5 week in to treatment and am happy to go back every week Holly and the assistants are all wonderful receptionist lovely now not sceard of the dentist recomend morris dental care to everyone

Fantastic experience: Lovely service! Quickly seen and prompt x-rays. All the staff are lovely from arriving to in the consult room. Lots of availability of appointments to suit you. Been registered here for years and never had an issue.

Fantastic experience: I've been coming to this practice for many years and the staff are wonderful, the dentist (Lizzie) is passionate and professional but with a compassionate touch. Keep up the good work

Fantastic experience: I’ve been a customer for over 25 years and had excellent service from the staff every time.

Fantastic experience: Both Holly and Ayesha were outstanding in providing an A class service.

Positive experience: My children used to always cry when coming to the dentist but since they have been seen by Sarah all of that has changed. It’s also lovely seeing friendly staff at reception too such as Ayesha.

Fantastic experience: Thank you to Jacob and Amy. They are very professional, nice and friendly. I had teeth extractions and they did it very quickly and smoothly. Also a big thank to receptionist and other team members.

Fantastic experience: Great dentist in a central location. All the dentists are really friendly and helpful. My children look forward to visiting.

Fantastic experience: Brilliant practice, my family have been under this practice for over 20 years. Both my children have never felt nervous or anxious due to the lovely staff and peaceful environment.

Fantastic experience: Friendly and professional staff. Really accommodating and always able to advise on any queries. Previous procedures have been very well done and no issue since. Would recommend if you’re looking for a friendly local dentist.

Fantastic experience: I have been coming to Morris for over 5 years. I have seen Holly who puts me at ease and explains everything well. I have met the owner Lizzie a few times who is very friendly and wants the best for her patients! The staff always seem happy and I am always welcomed with a lovely smile. I cannot recommend Morris dental care enough!

Fantastic experience: I have been with this dentist for over 13years. Always professional and try their very best to give great service.

Fantastic experience: Been coming to this dentist for a long time. Never any issues. Very welcoming. Prices better than anywhere else

Fantastic experience: I have been using Morris Dental Care over 7 years and I am very happy with the service they are providing for me I highly recommend this practice.

Fantastic experience: All my kids are registered here and have always provided excellent care - none of my kids are scared to go to the dentist including my son who had to have a tooth removed age 4 after damaging it from falling over.

Negative experience: I’ve been going to morris dental care for almost 25 years now and have had no issues. Until now. I recently had a run in with the new owners, who came running into reception hurling abuse at the hard working staff. I tried to calm them down but was met with a snide remark about my teeth. I quote, “I’m not surprised you’re here, Hagrid called he wants his rock cakes back”. In a time of such despair and gloom, I’d like to remind the new owners that manners cost nothing. I have since changed dentist.

Negative experience: Went to this dental practice on numerous occasions, the last couple of times i’ve been the patient care has been appalling. Very little care for the patients and seems just to be in it for the money will defiantly be going elsewhere, if you’re thinking of going here save your money and go somewhere else not worth the hassle.